What is the fastest way to loose your all your friends and acquaintances?
Join a Pyramid Scheme like Amway or GoldQuest
You need to be a fool to pay money to enroll into one, and then to recover from your losses, you push 10 more of your friends down the same path. What you don’t realize it that in this quest, you have bugged 100 of your acquaintance and not only pitched the idea unsuccessfully, but irritated them so much that they will never ever again talk to you.
According to wiki:
“A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, usually without any product or service being delivered.”
Common traits:
* A highly excited sales pitch, the whole time the presenter will try to sell you an idea of becoming an entrepreneur, having others earn for you etc, but he will never bother to tell you what work?
* Little to no information offered about the company unless an investor purchases the products and becomes a participant.
* Vaguely phrased promises of limitless income potential.
* No product, or a product being sold at a price ridiculously in excess of its real market value. As with the company, the product is vaguely described.
* An income stream that chiefly depends on the commissions earned by enrolling new members or the purchase by members of products for their own use rather than sales to customers who are not participants in the scheme.
Pyramid schemes work on a simple principle:
Enroll a fool and rob him by asking him to pay an exorbitantly high membership fee or buy some trinkets. Then make your customer your employee. By paying him a small fraction of the revenues, ask him to rope in his entire friend circle.
If you happen to be trapped in one such presentation, then you will realize that the whole time the presenter will talk irrelevant stuff.
Here is how my meeting went:
1) He will say how a bottle of cold-drink/greeting card which costs 10/- in retail actually costs a few paise to manufacture and rest all the markup is because of the distribution costs.
Well if you do want me to be a salesman, then please do bring your product catalog…. but you will never get a chance to see it. Also you would realize that even though he is a salesman for the same company, his intentions is not to sell you its products… his sole intention is to enroll you as a member.
2) Then he will keep on going about how life of a salaried guy sucks and he does not get due compensation for the business he brings to the company
well sir, I earn a 7 digit salary (INR), so I am not complaining and if you do have a solid business plan, then do explain it to me… but then you will realize that all he wants to do is touch your emotional chords.. he has nothing substantial to explain.
3) He will keep on saying, if you enroll in members, that you will get a commission from the business they bring….
Well sounds exciting, but what is the business? how do you guys make money… all you will get is silence.
4) Then he will draw complicated diagrams explaining how you will earn money etc.
Here you will realize that none of it revolves any logical business. I agree you were a fool to enroll in the first place, but that does not mean that the world has an endless supply of fools to rob from? After all the fool and his money soon part, so my probability of finding one in time is really bleak.
5) Then he will go on and explain how big the company is, how much is its revenue etc.
Good, so the company has already cornered the entire business space… now how will I find room for expanding.
All they are selling is the idea to get rich without putting in efforts. Well there is nothing like a free lunch.
If you know one, then please let me know.
Ankur Aggarwal
sree
Sandip Chaudhuri
vbr
shobhendrasrivastava
Now c’mon George (aka JoeCool or Whoz I’m starting to suspect), what’s your real, full name? Stop deflecting. Fair is fair. You think mine is so important, how about yours?
Ankur – Seriously though, do you really think this is appropriate comments for this blog, posting other peoples personal details?
Comment by ibofightback — April 11, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
Come visit my blog ibofightback
http://whatisquixtar.blogspot.com/
Comment by Outsider — April 11, 2008 @ 11:29 pm
No thanks, I have enough to do without dealing with more cluelessness.
Comment by ibofightback — April 12, 2008 @ 2:25 am
Yeah, your blog is clueless so I guess you have your hands full.
Comment by Outsider — April 15, 2008 @ 12:18 am
Guys, You have got great discussion on nailing down Amway. I have used a couple of their products, overpriced…okay. What these devils advocates do however is to brainwash people into sort of a cult. They will lie, deceive, cheat and talk like a nobel laureate in finance to approach you.
I would pay 20 bucks more as tax, if Amway stopped brainwashing these healthy people.
I had a parent approach me during my sons function, they come to our house as a friend, give me advise on issues starting from dental medicine…to disclose that they want to sell something. Idiots!
God save from these Amway devils. They seem to be pretty right wing reputation too, they had issues in spreading canards in USA. all these profits going to create boundaries between you and your amway friends, indoctrinated on an amway message and people’s freewill controlled by these Amway propagandists….
Comment by Dhara — April 15, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Dhara – who is this “they” you speak of? There are literally millions of people around the world building Amway businesses. Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, even atheist’s like me. There’s engineers and truck drivers, students and retirees. Are you claiming to know how they all operate from your experience with a few?
Organisations tend to reflect their leaders, doesn’t matter if it’s with Amway or any thing else. In Amway there are thousands of different leaders. Some of them operate ways I don’t like. Some of them operate ways I do like. Their groups tend to reflect the leaders. Someone deceiving you into a meeting would go under the banner of “ways I don’t like”. But blame them – not Amway and the millions of other independent amway business owners.
And if you think “well, Amway should do something about the people deceiving”, well they do. But tell me this, did you report these people who deceived you to Amway? If you didn’t how do you expect Amway to even know it happened, let alone who did it? They’re not going to guess from reading anonymous comments on the ‘net.
Comment by ibofightback — April 16, 2008 @ 1:35 am
How would a new person know who the good leaders are as opposed to the bad leaders?
Ok, blame the bad leaders but a regulatory agency should investigate to see if there are indeed a significant number of bad leaders out there and shut down the company if it’s confirmed.
Imagine you own a company and you employ salesmen. The salesmen go out and they lie, cheat, steal, whatever. You get some complaints and deal with them, but most customers simply get pissed off and don’t do business with you anymore, plus they tell everyone they know about their bad experience. You as the owner can just say – yeah, got some bad salesmen out there, but it’s not my fault.
I just summed up why I believe Amway has these
problems. Oh yeah, and having a guy named ibofightback defending the issues doesn’t help the reputation either.
Comment by Outsider — April 16, 2008 @ 4:15 am
Ok, so you own the company. It’s a big one. You have millions of salesman around the world. Some of the salesman lie, cheat steal etc. Yet you receive no complaints about them. What would you do?
Comment by ibofightback — April 16, 2008 @ 6:05 pm
IBOfightback, you are a master of debate.
Are you claiming that NOBODY has made any complaints to Amway about leaders who teach bad business practices? I have read many testimonies where IBO’s have said they complained to Amway and to their knowledge, nothing has been done.
And because these leaders are still apparertly teaching, it looks like NOTHING has been done by the parent company.
Comment by Outsider — April 16, 2008 @ 10:26 pm
Where did I ever make that claim or even imply it? That’s absurd. Are you claiming Amway’s *never* does anything about complaints? Just because your or others don’t know what’s happened doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
I’d note that now if Amway receives complaints like many of those you read, eg the religion, the politics, excessive income claims, lying about the Amway/Quixtar name etc, then the people involved will no longer be eligible for all the yearly bonuses – “the big money”, in some cases hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. You call that doing nothing?
Comment by ibofightback — April 17, 2008 @ 4:55 am
In your example you said: Yet you receive no complaints about them
“No” complaints? As I said if you actually read my previous post, there is evidence/testimony that IBO’s have made complaints to the corporation.
But I have not seen evidence that these complaints were addressed.
You spin the truth.
Apparently, there are some groups that still push religion, some groups still deny that they are Amway. I think I just read a testimony where a network 21 IBO says they are not amway. These issues I believe, the corporation knows about, but nobody seems to know if they have ever been addressed.
Seems like only the “team” group had penalties, but that I believe it because they wanted to start a competing business against quixtar/amwa.
Comment by Outsider — April 17, 2008 @ 6:22 am
you have all these stinking arguments…but still the smart guy out of this discussion is amway distributor anyways, becz you may screem, & do whatever still he makes money. If you have so much data to prove amway is wrong, donot do it. Keep working for 40 years as donkeys. who cares. what significance you have in your life. god only can save stupid people.
Comment by amway IBO — April 17, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
Outsider, you’re not aware for example that the guy in the Dateline expose was sanctioned by Amway? You’re not aware that Orrin Woodward et.al. had been under warnings and sanctions for years before they were kicked out? You’re not aware of the dozens of other diamonds and above that have been kicked out over the years? And I can make you aware that at least one N21 Emerald I know of who was “hiding” the name Quixtar in his plans has been spoken to by both Amway and N21 and changed his plan.
It seems you’re on the normal “critic” path of “I’ve never heard of it, so therefore it hasn’t happened!”. What other company actively publicises disciplinary action against it’s staff or represenatives?
Comment by ibofightback — April 17, 2008 @ 6:03 pm
I agree with ibofightback! And have you seen how Orrin stepped in it now? See:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/04/16/18493287.php
Comment by Curious IBO — April 17, 2008 @ 8:20 pm
ibofightback, it’s more like you never heard of abuses so they don’t exist. Do you think the massive numbers of negative testimonials on blogs and forums are made up?
They seem to have a common thread. Bad advice from upline and debt piled up due to bad advice from upline to buy tapes and seminar tickets.
Comment by Outsider — April 18, 2008 @ 5:08 am
Outside, it more like you can’t read. Where have I *ever* said there are no abuses? Where have ever said anything close to that? As for “massive” numbers – compared to what? I analysed 2 years of the mssages on amquixes – less than a third of them were actually “negative testimonial”. Most were actually from prospects or brand new IBOs who decided to not be involved after reading the site – before they’d even had any experience. A third of them were folk defending the business!
There have been *millions* of people who have been involved in Amway in the US alone. Compared to that number, the number of complaints are *tiny*. What’s more, if you bother to actually *think* and look at the data, which is what I do, you’ll find that virtually all of those complaints are sourced *from the same affiliated groups*, and the dozens of Crown Ambassadors and thousands of Diamonds outside those groups generate virtually zero “negative testimonials”.
Does that not tell you anything at all? Are you incapable of working out a pattern here?
Start using your brain for a moment instead of repeating the same old tired mantras of the same old critics. And folk accuse us of being brainwashed. Good grief.
Comment by ibofightback — April 18, 2008 @ 6:17 am
IBOfightback, you spin more than a top. You can talk about the small number of formal complaints that have been filed. I agree.
Most people probably just quit and tell everyone that the business is a scam.
But I can also tell you another thing. For every one person who likes quixtar/amway, I can comfortably guess that there about at least a dozen or more who have a negative opinion abut amway/quixtar and that number is even greater if you add in people who know someone who had a bad experience in amway/quixtar.
At least my assertion can be backed up by evidence. The lack of growth over the last 30 years or so. Quixtar/Amway has about the same numbers of distributors today (In the US) as they had back in the late 1970′s.
Diamonds falling out, diamonds quitting. The evidence is on my side.
IBOfightback, your defense of amway is weak indeed. By the way, do you work for amway?
Comment by Outsider — April 18, 2008 @ 6:54 am
No, I don’t work for Amway. And that “same number of distributors since the 1970s” is a myth, one of the many spread by anti-amway critics. See Amway/Quixtar MYTH: No growth in IBOs in 30 years for the proof. The number of IBOs has in fact almost doubled.
What’s more, given sales have doubled (inflation adjusted) in that time, wouldn’t it be a *good* thing if the # of IBOs were the same? It would me IBOs are generating twice the volume per IBO and thus more money!
Neither facts, nor logic, is on your side.
Comment by ibofightback — April 18, 2008 @ 2:42 pm
ibofightback, you’re like a booksmart guy with no “street smarts”.
Yuo can make up all kinds of tidbits and snippets about amwa and quixtar, but in real life, amway/quixtar has a bad reputation and
more and more people get turned off when you mention the name. Diamonds are being dropped and soe are quitting. Seems like more are quitting than emerging, at least in the USA.
You can have your theories, I’ll believe my own eyes.
Nice try at spinning the plates though.
Comment by Outsider — April 18, 2008 @ 11:00 pm
Outsider, how many people have qualified as new Diamonds in the US in the last say, 4 years?
Comment by ibofightback — April 19, 2008 @ 9:55 pm